Leadership Curveballs, Blind Spots and Black Holes, Episode 11

In recent times, leaders have been tested in ways they could never have imagined. They were expected to have all the answers and provide direction to their teams when they had no idea what was coming next or how to take the next step forward when the curveballs kept coming…

In this special episode, Bobbie LaPorte and guest Erin Baudo Felter, VP of Social Impact and Sustainability at Okta, discuss Erin’s approach to leading through uncertainty, social turbulence, and the multiple curveballs leadership has faced since late 2019.

Podcast Transcript

Bobbie: Hi, this is Bobbie LaPorte your host Of Leadership, Curveballs, Blind Spots, and Black Holes, and today we have a special episode featuring our guest Erin Baudo Felter, who is Vice President of Social Impact and Sustainability at Okta.

So, Erin, I think we all know that there’s no question during the last year leaders have been tested in ways they never imagined. They were expected to have the answers and provide direction to their teams when most of the time they had no idea what was coming next and how to take the next step forward. You shared with me a story about how you leaned into your team to help solve a particularly challenging issue, can you tell us about that?

Erin: So, it was probably a few days after George Floyd was murdered. I knew, pretty close to right when it happened that this was probably going to become something big, but I don’t think the rest of my team knew it. And that’s just because, I read too much news and I read too much Twitter and I just I could tell that this was going to bubble into a place that may be prior incidents hadn’t. Although there have been several incidents leading up to it that I think made it what it was.

But anyway, it became clear later that week that this was going to require a response that was significant. And. It was moving so quickly that we were having trouble just keeping up with like where the news was at and then what the pulse of it on the employee base was and so there was a for me. Just as a leader in that it was like it was upsetting. First of all, to know what was happening in the outside world, right?

And then as a leader, it was very clear we had to do something to address this for our employees in that philanthropy and social impact was an important piece of that, as was Todd making a comment and was rallying our employee leaders to, you know…

I remember we were all working from home and hadn’t seen each other in six months or whatever by that point. And I remember being in my kid’s room and on the phone I basically called like an impromptu phone call of my two deputies at the time, because I felt like we needed to have a response, and I and I didn’t know what the answer was.

So I got them on the phone and I basically said we need to do something here. We need to respond on behalf of the company on behalf of our employees and communities. And… They weren’t engaging in the conversation with me is what I remember like what I figured out is that they were basically waiting for me to tell them what we were going to do so that they could take the direction and then go execute on it and. That was not what I needed, I needed them to solve with me and be equals in that process.

And when I realized that they thought I knew what the answer was and they were waiting for it, I knew I had to change my tune. And so I basically said to them at that point, guys. I don’t know what to do here. I literally don’t know what to do. I need you to think with me. I need you to help figure out what the response should be and it was at that point in the conversation that it became an actual conversation and we… you know, we ended up making, I think, a really good plan of what we were going to do in terms of our philanthropic response. And then we went on from there.

But that moment of realizing, you know… I don’t know how else to explain it. It’s just like they were… It was almost like the old ways in that moment of them, expecting that I was just going to say, oh, here’s what we do in this situation.

And it was not the old times and it was not the old ways that were gonna suffice. It was something very new and very different and, I think you know… in that moment because my capacity was so limited because of everything we had been going through.. I’m going through, and I’m home with two kids and homeschooling and husband who wasn’t working and whatever, I was just like I don’t know what to do… I need help.

So that’s the story. Is that helpful?

Bobbie: Yes, just even the way you phrased it, super helpful. So one other question. So. What have you learned about your leadership style and yourself? During the last year plus. It’s a very different environment.

Erin: I’m actually, I think. Felt more like myself as a leader than I ever have in my whole career in the last year. And I think it’s because. I mean a few things, but I think one of the biggest things is like there’s room for empathy in our work lives now. And I don’t feel like there was before. I feel like if you had empathy and if you had vulnerability, you weren’t allowed to show up with that.

And I’ve picked a career path where I’m kind of allowed to show up with that. ’cause I’m like this weird person over here, but in general I just didn’t feel like that was a part of the game, and in the last year and a half I think the people who show up with that empathy and with that vulnerability actually lead better. And I have felt very empowered by my natural tendencies in that arena. That to say like no, no, no, I’m not trying to be like everybody else anymore. I’m trying to be like me and it actually is working. And that’s been, I think, a silver lining.

Bobbie: And that feels much more natural to you?

Erin: Much more natural, much more natural, and it feels like what people need. You know it’s like, you can’t talk to a single person in the daily goings-on of work and not come across somebody who’s going through something really hard, even still.

You know,  I had a great conversation yesterday with a nonprofit leader friend of mine who’s said, “why are we building our systems and goals assuming everybody can work at 100% all the time? We should be building them to assume people work at 75% so that they can get their work done, we achieve our goals, but we don’t burn people out and crash them to the earth.“

And I was like, “that’s interesting.” He’s going through something where his dad’s got terminal cancer, so he’s reevaluating everything.

But, you know, the point is. That I think it’s what people need. People need grace and a break and like to be their whole selves. And if you can as a leader, just leave space for that… It’s certainly what we’ve needed the last year and a half, but it’s, I think what we need forever.

Bobbie: Do you think some of your peers, are they… were they thinking that way or are they thinking that way that people are sort of bending to the business pressures and kind of moving back to the way they used to be?

Erin: I think people were thinking that way very much in the first months of this, like so much so that it was really inspiring. In particular in Okta. And, I see less of it now. I don’t see.. I don’t think it’s gone. I still think we’re much further ahead than we started, but I think there’s been a little bit of a contraction as things seem to be getting back to normal. I think for us as a business, as we saw that our business was healthy and our business was actually growing in the face of all this. So we’re a little bit maybe unique in Okta’s circumstance that like….

You know, the world didn’t come crashing down like we thought it might, and in that period where we thought it might, nobody knew. I think that the most… I saw the most empathy I’ve ever seen, probably in an organization.

Bobbie: Yes, how, you sustain this going forward, right? It’s really the challenge.

Erin: Yes.

Bobbie: Yes, you and your organization can definitely be a role model for that, so I hope that continues.

Erin: Yeah, I hope so. Trying to keep the wheels going.

Bobbie: Yeah, that’s great. Thank you, Erin, thank you for your vulnerability and for sharing your story. And for those of you who are listening, you can learn more about Erin’s leadership journey in my upcoming book called When the Curveballs Keep Coming: A Leadership Playbook for Uncertain Times that will be released late October.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT OF “YOUR BEST NEXT MOVE”: How do you lead your team when a MAJOR change comes out of nowhere?

Hi everyone, Bobbie LaPorte here again with my weekly tip for your Best Next Move – where I help you have more agency in your work, acknowledge your capacity to act and see what you can do right now.

In these weekly tips, I’ve been talking about how you can take action – in an environment that often makes it challenging to do so – to achieve your goals in 2021. Most of the time this involves specific issues you are dealing with, or perhaps an unexpected situation that arises that has you stumped. But the challenge can sometimes be a more significant, unexpected change – one that wasn’t planned for or anticipated..like some major – and I mean MAJOR – change that comes out of nowhere.

In the uncertain world in which we live and lead, internal changes have become kind of common, but we are still never quite ready for them. So, what do you do when something BIG hits you and your team: your boss is gone, the whole org is in transition, you don’t know who’s really in charge? The ground feels like it is moving under you. It’s just too much, too major, too sudden for you to get your bearings.

When this happens, it’s natural to feel like you are not in control; you recognize it, and your team feels it. This is a stop on your journey you had not planned for or anticipated.

To add to the drama and challenge, many of your colleagues might also feel rudderless, mourning the loss of the familiar; digging I their heels against just one more change to deal with.

So now what do you do? Well, in this case – using the personal power of “agency” might feel very different than with more minor situations or issues. But you need to do act!

So, here’s my tip

Let go of the exact “what” you are going to do and instead focused on movement..doing something, taking action. Set a new process in motion: one step at a time, focusing on what is really needed by the business – now. It doesn’t have to be the “perfect” move – just what makes sense to you. This will restore some sense of normalcy for your team, to show them a path forward out of this situation – even if you are not sure exactly what the road ahead looks like. No one does.

Focus less on what you’ve done in the past to what you can do now. That’s your first best next move. After that, you can decide what your next step is, and the next.

As I’ve said in these tips before: I want 2021 to be a year of momentum for you, one of possibility thinking where you take advantage of the agency we sometimes forget we have.

That’s my tip for this week. I’ll see you next Monday; take care of yourselves!

As leaders, we are in a position to have an impact on our teams and create a more accepting, tolerant, and respectful work environment.

In this Episode:

04:31 – Keeping employees engaged and productive during a pandemic

05:39 – Help your team navigate through the next few months

05:56 – Three science-based actions you can take right now to support your team

Podcast Transcript

Hi everyone, Bobbie LaPorte here, your host of The Executive Aid Station Podcast series called “Leadership Curveballs, Blind Spots, and Black Holes.”

In this episode, we’ll feature an expanded version of one of our weekly coronavirus curveball tips on how to build a bridge over divisions in a post-election world.

The week after the election, I produced a special edition of my weekly video blog. I had been reflecting on the election and how it created more division and polarization in our country about what is right versus wrong. And I’m not just talking about political parties here. In the weeks since the election, we’ve only seen this divide magnified.

As many groups continue to criticize, demean and hold contempt for others. And this, despite the facts that our shared heritage as Americans of what we have in common and our natural human need to be whole and unified, is needed now more than ever. 

Look, there’s always been them versus us in our society. Remember growing up in school where there were the cool kids versus the nerdy kids, the ones that went to one school versus the kids that went to the other school?

We find validation, support, and community within groups of like-minded people. And that’s generally helpful and beneficial, but this time, and what we’re talking about today is very different.

We are definitely in a time when we’re more likely to classify people into the in or out-groups. We have more of an emotional and physiological reaction to people if they are in or out, based on our own perspective. And this extreme divide impacts our ability to show empathy, to see what we have in common versus our differences.

And it really pains me to see how people are attacking each other, both verbally and physically, people from the other side on the news. But unfortunately, it doesn’t seem likely that we’ll see progress in the short term on this front. It’s important to acknowledge and accept that we have a limited amount of control in this situation.

But as leaders, we are in a unique position to have an impact with our teams to create a more accepting, tolerant, and respectful work environment. If you are familiar with my work, you know, I draw on science-based practices to help leaders navigate challenging times. So I wanted to offer some tips to help you build a bridge over these divides and restore trust and tolerance in your organization.

First, a couple of points to consider since the pandemic began, we have all been living in a heightened state of anxiety and personal threat. Our people are dealing with cognitive overload. They’re taxed emotionally. They have no personal resources left to deal with another emotional factor, like the election results.

Just consider all the issues people have been dealing with, including working remotely, educating people at home, caring for family members, managing family dynamics. Establishing new routines for shopping, exercise, and living in close quarters. These are just some of the many challenges that have become part of our daily lives.

And it feels like just when we think we’re settling in getting somewhat used to this new set of circumstances, a new challenge puts us back on the defense. I’ve talked before about how our brains are wired to be anchored to the negative, to possible threats and dangers that we see. And with all these issues and negativity, we have no room to handle something else.

And then talking about keeping our teams engaged and productive, well, that’s even a bigger challenge than normal in this environment. It’s interesting to look at the potential impact on your team. The Gartner Group recently conducted a survey related to this about engaging and keeping employees productive during the pandemic and found the following.

36% of people have been avoiding their coworkers because of politics. And in times when bringing people together in cross-functional roles to solve complex problems is more important than ever. This is a major concern, and 47% of people surveyed say the election has impacted their ability to get work done.

It’s definitely a major distraction. So think about that. Have you experienced this yourself? Have you seen signs of this in your team? Well, I know that many of us have.

One of my clients, a very outgoing high energy approachable leader, recently shared how he is just plain exhausted after all of this. And can’t wait for the weekend to withdraw.

I’m guessing many of you can identify with this response. So, what does this mean to you? What can you as a leader do about this? Where do you start? Well, I would suggest that your role as a leader is to be the binding energy that helps people navigate through the next few weeks and months. To be the emotional stability for your team through continuing uncertainty and challenge.

So here’s my guidance for you:

These are three science-based actions you can take to support your team during this time.

First: Label the emotion. You can’t make people’s anxiety, fear, anger go away. But just by asking them to share what they’re feeling, what we call, name it to tame it, you are activating the brain’s braking system and allowing them to use the limited cognitive resources they have on other things.

Then you can consider a few ways to work with your team to deal with what they are facing, but this is the first critical step to label the emotion.

Second: We state very clearly the values of your organization. This very important action gives people purpose and meaning that they need in this time. And don’t assume that people already know their world has changed, and they need to know from you that the direction of your organization has not.

Third: Focus on the shared goals of your team. Be specific, help them see how they can build on their prior successes to achieve more together. Our neural pathways are developed over time through shared experience. As we build relationships with others, this can be challenging during the pandemic and sheltering in place and working in a virtual environment, but there are ways to build empathy and teamwork in this time.

Sharing these goals create certainty in an environment of unrelenting uncertainty and activates the part of the brain responsible for inspiration, creativity, and problem-solving. These superordinate goals of your team can be a powerful unifying mechanism.

That’s it for this special edition of The Executive Aide Station Podcast series Leadership, Curveballs, Blind Spots, and Black Holes. I hope you’ll check out future episodes of the series, designed to help you navigate through uncertainty.

In this Episode:

01:23 – Definition of Motivation

01:35 – Learn What Motivates/De-Motivates Team Members

05:00 – The Practice of Strengths-Spotting

06:35 – Providing Certainty in Uncertain Times

Podcast Transcript

Hi everyone, Bobbie LaPorte here, your host of the Executive Aide Station Podcast Series called Leadership Curve Balls, Blind Spots and Black Holes. In this episode, we’ll feature an expanded version of one of our weekly coronavirus curveball tips on how to motivate your team.

Recently, I conducted a brief survey of a 30 person leadership team at one of my clients. I asked them to identify their number one challenge working with remote teams during the ongoing pandemic. The overwhelming response was, “how do I continue to keep my team motivated and productive without micromanaging them?”

I’m guessing that probably sounds familiar to many of you. The challenge of motivating and engaging employees has been a significant ongoing one for all leaders, long before the pandemic began.

Motivating people is a leadership challenge. Now more than ever, when people are feeling anxious, uncertain, and often feeling stuck, in this extended period of working from home. So let’s start with a definition. What is motivation? Anyway, the classic definition of motivation is a reason to act a certain way.

So for us, it’s important to consider that you cannot motivate people. Let me repeat that you, as a leader, cannot motivate people. They have to motivate themselves. Now that might sound counterintuitive. After all, haven’t we always been told how important it is to motivate our teams? But the reality is that your job as a leader is to learn what motivates and engages your team members versus what is de-motivating to them.

Everyone has different motivators and stressors. If there’s anything we’ve learned about the people who work for us during this pandemic, it’s that everyone is different. Some people are motivated by extrinsic things like time off or additional compensation; others, more by things like autonomy or a new challenge.

It’s your charge to get to know your team members well enough to understand their individual needs. So it’s important during these times to connect with them on a more personal level and understand how working from home is impacting their ability to do their job. Then, armed with that knowledge and understanding, you can create an environment based on their needs and preferences so that they can do their best work.

Here’s an example: you might have a team member who was always driven by new challenges by taking on troubled projects or high-visibility initiatives that require close collaboration with cross-functional peers. And another team member may not seek the limelight so much. They are motivated by having a specific defined project that allows them to work autonomously, setting their own schedule and work plan.

Now, these two people have very different needs and preferences in terms of what motivates them day-to-day. Your challenge is to understand these sources of motivation and then, together with your team members, define the environment, support, structure, and recognition that will keep their motivation motor running; any way to get to know your team members’ motivations better.

If you’re not sure what motivates the individuals on your team, simply ask them. So here’s a suggestion. The next time you’re having a one-on-one conversation with someone on your team, offer to share something like that. You can say, during the last few months, I’ve had a chance to reflect and think about what’s really important to keep me going, and what I’ve learned is… then fill in the blank and tell them that and then ask them, so what’s important to you.

This is a simple, conversational way to find out what motivates your team members, but it also demonstrates empathy and vulnerability. That is so important for leaders to show, right now, when we’re all learning to navigate through uncertainty. Another way to help understand what motivates people is to help them define and connect to their talents, strengths, and special gifts.

We know from positive psychology that people are inspired to do more to increase their engagement and overall wellbeing when they approach their work from a stress versus liabilities perspective. This is the practice of what we call strength spotting. It’s a foundational part of building capacity in you and your team.

And it’s more than just inventorying and connecting your team members with their strengths. It goes beyond this basic step to help them leverage what is good and useful to think about how their strengths can be used in a broader way to expand what they are capable of—moving beyond what they’ve done in the past to what they can do now, deploying these strengths in new ways.

So let me say that again. What we’re looking for here is how their strengths can be used in a broader way to expand what they’re capable of to show what they can do now, deploy these strengths in new ways. And again, often, it’s as easy as asking them a simple question. What is an example of something you do?

A skill that you have that you would like to use more. That simple question can uncover strengths. Your team member has that are not fully being put to use to advance your team’s goals as well as to help build satisfaction for your team members, work together with understanding what motivates them.

You’re connecting your team member with their strengths. Helping them expand on what they already do well, and that helps them become more confident. And self-sufficient in the future. The final advice I have for helping keep your team members engaged and motivated during these times of unrelenting uncertainty is to provide certainty wherever you can.

So don’t assume that your team members always know what you need them to do. Be clear about your expectations. Make the implicit explicit and then continue to reinforce the purpose goals and objectives you share as a team. Even if your message hasn’t changed, you need to repeat it often because the world has changed, and your team members need to know that the existing direction still holds motivating.

Your team will always be a challenge, particularly in times of uncertainty. But for a leader, it can also present an opportunity to learn the individual needs of your team members, demonstrate empathy, strong interest, and commitment to helping them succeed in any environment. So that’s it for the special edition of Executive Aide Station Podcast, series Leadership Curve Balls, Blind Spots, and Black Holes.

We hope you’ll check out future episodes of the series, which are designated to help you navigate through uncertainty.

Taking on a new leadership role can be challenging under normal circumstances.  Due to the pandemic, and the unique challenges it is presenting for business leaders, we’re continuing our special series of extended In the Fire segments featuring executives who are managing through the biggest curveball many have seen in their lifetimes, COVID 19.

In this episode, we’re featuring Nadya Duke Boone, VP of Product at DAT Solutions, the leading provider of freight matching analytics for the trucking industry. Nadya shares with us how the pandemic has affected her role as a leader, her biggest challenges, and her thoughts on “what’s next.”

Podcast Transcript

Hi everyone, this is Bobbie LaPorte, your host of Executive Aid Stations, Leadership, Curveballs, Blind Spots, and Black Holes Podcast. Each week we help busy leaders navigate through complex and versatile times with practical solutions to real life. Today’s episode is not our usual format because of the pandemic and the unique challenges it presents for business leaders.

We’re conducting a series of extended, what we call, in the fire segments, featuring executives who are managing through the biggest curveball many have seen in their lifetimes, COVID-19. And today, we have a very special guest joining us, Nadia Duke Boone, who will share how the pandemic has affected her role as a leader.

Her biggest challenges and her thoughts on what’s next. So let me tell you about Nadya. She’s the head of product for DAT Solutions, which is the leading provider of freight matching analytics for the truck industry. She builds great products by leading and serving the product management user experience and data science teams at DAT.

Prior to DAT, Nadya was a product leader at the high-growth SaaS company New Relic, where she developed the first artificial intelligence products and branding-led product for the development and launch of the integrated product platform and was the general manager of the flagship product. A lot of products in there.

One fun fact about Nadya. She’s a published science fiction writer, which I just love. I think that’s super cool. So now, welcome to the podcast. Thank you, Bobbie. So, interestingly, you’ve recently transitioned to this new position as head of product at Dat during the pandemic. That must have been an added leadership challenge for you.

So tell us about it.

Sure. My last interview for this position was, I think, pretty much the day the lockdown started. And I started in the beginning of May. So my whole onboarding, all my experience there has been, at the entire company has been, working from home. So as I thought about that challenge, how was I going to onboard into this situation?

I use the framework that I’ve been using for several years to think about my job, which is that I am both a product leader and a people leader. And I hope folks in your audience who aren’t product folks can still connect with that. Because maybe they’re a technology leader and a people leader or a finance leader to people leader.

But it helps me make sure I’m balancing my energy and my time if I remember that I have both those roles. For me, the first step of leadership is building trust, and you have to earn that trust. So I thought about coming into an organization. How can I do that? When I can’t use a lot of my normal tools, like having lunch and hanging out, having coffee with people, and things like that.

So I took a more deliberate approach to introduce myself to folks on the human side. And I had just learned about a technique called PechaKucha, which is Japanese for chitchat. And it’s a very structured approach to introducing yourself, which I then, completely just kind of bent to my will. The basic idea is you put together a slideshow that is really just pictures, about ten pictures about yourself, and talk about yourself as a human.

And so I did that. And then, I added a few more slides that talked about my approach to product and leadership. Because I knew I was already in questions about that because I was coming on board, and I use this every team meeting I went to, whether it was folks on my team or folks in partner organizations, like marketing or engineering.

And then I had a different challenge, which just suddenly I was going to talk about myself for like 10 minutes in front of the people I don’t know, which felt super awkward. So I told people why I was doing it, and I showed a little more vulnerability, I hope, in saying, I’m doing this because we know as humans, and we know the science shows that we work better together.

When we start to get to know each other as people, and most responded really well to that. And it’s been great. Like now, when I have follow-up conversations with staff, they’ll say things like, oh, you’re a science fiction writer, and we’ll talk about that. Or, oh, you grew up in San Diego, let’s talk about that. So it’s helped at least get that first level of just people knowing me, as a person, not just somebody who’s coming in as a, as an executive.

And then, the second side of that, about building trust to me, is a lot about delivering something for the team. So people talk a lot about quick wins, and you’re in a job, but for me, the first quick wins are, what can I do for the team to show them that I’m really there to help them. So that probably speaks more to the product side of my job, where I looked around at the things that were going on.

There was a lot of great work in progress. But there were opportunities to say, make things more clear or get the strategy straight or connect some groups that maybe weren’t clear and weren’t aligned on goals. So I found those ways and brought in some tools, using some templates and things I’d used before to just bring up structure in and get clarity around things.

And I am filling a position that had not had a full-time incumbent for a while. So there was a lot of just sort of open space where people were hungry for leadership. And so I was able to move in there pretty quickly and just bring some tools in to help folks, really at the ground level. And again, I think that’s been a good step.

Well, and trust is really the keyword here, right? It’s so important in general, but particularly during times of uncertainty, you know, people need to feel like their leader is there for them, to understand something about them personally, just the vulnerability that you displayed by talking about who you are and why you were doing what you did do.

I think we’ll definitely go a long way towards you having a successful transition and being a successful leader there, as well as, as you said, just delivering on quick wins. Because that tells people that get you it, it gives you credibility about your role and what you can deliver for them. Very interesting.

Right? Impactful. So tell us how you’re thinking about what’s next because many people now are planning. So, you know, post, like, you know, whether it’s coming back to the office, you know, now that they’re thinking about what is the next phase of work looks like? So what does that look like for you at DAT?

I think a lot of what’s next, and this would be true regardless of whether we’re working at home or not.

And frankly, you know, our options are, we’re still exploring the right path for us in terms of how we’re going to bring people back into the office. And so the thing I’ve been thinking about a lot for what’s next is how do we get really tight and crisp alignment on our goal and expectations. And this is something that, I’m I know it’s always important to a leader.

I think it’s even more important, now when you’re, again, you don’t have all those little… it’s harder to get those whole in-the-moment reinforcement of your values and your goals. So I’m looking at tools like OKR, other things that we can do that really reinforce what we’re trying to get to, how people can be successful.

Because I think that anytime you’re leading a large organization, you really need to make sure that the folks out there executing, you know, 40, 50 hours a week, that you may have been only talked to for a few hours a week are really aligned and moving towards the right goals. So that entire strategy really comes together.

And so I’ve been thinking about that and also about how do I keep up on the personal side so that as challenges do come up, I’m approachable, right? I want people to come to me and be like, you know, you said this thing later I saw this action that doesn’t align with the thing that you said, could you help me bridge that?

Right. So then I can find out, you know, we’d been misinterpreted if things got lost in translation, or if there’s just a little bit of smoke, you know, smoke that I need to help put out. So those are, again, my two things, clarity expectations and then keeping up those relationships. So that is the challenges that do come along.

We’re asking so much of folks right now across the entire world right now to work in new ways. And so I want, I want to make sure they know that there’s, there’s lots of avenues for help.

Well, Excellent. The relationship piece is so important, particularly if you’re going to continue to work in a virtual environment, and I know that’s one of your strengths and so that’s super interesting.

Thank you so much for sharing that with us. I wish you all the best in your new role. We really appreciate you being a guest on our podcast and sharing your insights and advice. And thanks to our listeners. We hope this week’s episode of Leadership, Curveballs, Blind Spots, and Black Holes provide you with some practical solutions and insights to the challenges you face as you navigate your own leadership journey through the new normal.

Be sure to join us next week for another episode. And in the meantime, stay safe and be well.

Because of the pandemic, and the unique challenges it is presenting for business leaders, we’re continuing our special series of extended In the Fire segments featuring executives who are managing through the biggest curveball many have seen in their lifetimes, COVID 19.

In this episode, we’re featuring Nancy Michaels, Director of Business Development, Silicon Valley at GCI, a commercial general contracting firm, who shares with us how the pandemic has affected her role as a leader, her biggest challenges, and her thoughts on “what’s next.”

Podcast Transcript

Hi everyone, this is Bobbie LaPorte, your host of Executive Aid Stations, Leadership, Curveballs, Blind Spots, and Black Holes. Each week we help busy leaders navigate through a complex and versatile time with practical solutions for real-life challenges.

Today’s episode is not an unusual format because of the pandemic and the unique challenges it is presenting for business leaders. We’re conducting a series of extended in the fire segments, featuring executives who are managing through the biggest curveball many have seen in their lifetime. COVID-19 and today we have a very special guest joining us, my friend, Nancy Michaels. Who’ll share with us how the pandemic has affected her role as a leader, her biggest challenges, and her thoughts on what’s next.

So let me first tell you a little bit about Nancy. Nancy Michaels is currently the director of business development for GCI Contractors in Silicon valley. And previously, she held the same title at Skyline Construction Nancy’s professional success has largely come from her focus on building strategic relationships that support meaningful work across the growing organizations in her community.

She is definitely a relationship person and a connector. She approaches everyone. She works with clients, partners, peers, team leaders, team members with empathy and consideration. Nancy has been an executive sponsor and leader for a number of women’s professional groups in the real estate and construction industry, which is how I first met her.

She has shared with me her many challenges and approaches to the COVID pandemic. So I was really pleased when she agreed to join us for this special edition of our podcast. So Nancy, welcome to our Leadership, Curveballs Blind Spots and Black Holes podcast.

Really happy to have you here.

Thank you, Bobbie, it’s a privilege.

Well, it is for me because I really admire that the work you do and the leadership you provided, and I know that we’ve sort of emailed about some of the challenges you’ve had during the pandemic, which has been different, as we said before, we started for everyone.

So, absolutely.

So let’s start with my first question, which during this time, what has been your biggest challenge during the COVID-19 pandemic?

I think for me, the biggest challenge is, I joined GCI in January of 2020. I took the last ten weeks of 2019 off when I accepted this new position. I had ten weeks from January 6th until we sheltered in place on March 17th to get to know my new team, reconnect with clients and relationships that I have cultivated over my ten years in the construction industry.

And then, in a very short amount of time, everything changed. And I really found myself having to think out of the box and how am I going to continue to get to know my new team. How am I going to continue to build relationships and introduce my existing relationships and expand those relationships and now bring in opportunities for GCI?

And I actually started reading a book about two weeks ago called Together. It’s written by the 19th surgeon general of the US, a doctor. I can’t remember his last name. I’ve seen him recently on TV. Yes. So, and I just started reading the book, and it’s really illustrated to me that neurologically, we all need that human connection.

I think the biggest challenge is that it is now lacking, and I’ve done virtual coffees, I’m doing virtual get-togethers. And what I’m really trying to do is get-togethers where I am adding value for the various people that are on these zoom happy hours.

And, you know, trying to really also add value and provide information to people in my circle, whether it be a commercial real estate broker, an architect and interior designer, a construction manager, I have had to pivot and be nimble, which is one of GCI’s values and to stay relevant, and try to provide valuable information to the people in my circle. It has, by far, been my biggest challenge.

Exactly. And I think it has, for many of us, I’m curious. I want to talk a little bit more about that because your role is business development. Correct. So for current clients or, you know, contexts you have, who, maybe it’s a little. Easier in some ways, right?

To keep that connection, even though you don’t have the physical connection with them, but it is in terms of brand new clients, bringing your brand to clients, and GCI, how have you changed your approach there? Because obviously, they don’t already have a connection and relationship with you. Right? So now you’re trying to build it from scratch
in a virtual.

Correct. And that’s really where the strong relationships I have had over the last, almost ten years, and the referral business of having an architect who has worked with me previously and who knows me as an individual contributor per se. It has really benefited, has benefited me and GCI. We have had some new opportunities with new clients because of those relationships.

And it’s in, in my business. It’s not only establishing the relationship that matters. It’s nurturing it and cultivating, you know? And never taking it for granted. And I think that is something that I really enjoy. The people that are in my circle, whether it’s an architect and interior designer or a construction manager, there’s trust, there’s credibility, there’s they know that I am going to be responsive, that I am going to be.

That I am going to listen that I am going to understand the opportunity, and I am going to do my absolute best to find the right team for that opportunity. And GCI. That is what GCI has predicated its success upon is a long-term relationship. And they have also, in the last six or seven years, expanded the markets that they are in to some markets that are considered essential.

Those have benefited us as well as a long history of serving the life science community. We have several very large clients in the life science arena that even when the pandemic hit, I was so impressed with the leadership and the swift response to developing a whole new set of health and safety guidelines to respond to this pandemic, to be able to remobilize right on certain campuses.
We remobilize in April on some really critical projects for companies that are responding to COVID-19 trying to find a vaccine.

So I have in a very short amount of time. GCI has demonstrated one of its core values, which is to be nimble, responded just magnificently. In my opinion, they also provided some very valuable information for people like commercial real estate brokers and architects and interior designers on what they thought the cost impacts may be; guidelines on cost impacts just from a pure construction site standpoint.

And then we came out with another document on all the touchless appliances that now are going to be required in many buildings. So to help, the strategic relationships they have with big developers in the area.
So it’s given me great confidence in my new team.

Extraordinary circumstances.

Yes.

It’s exciting to be, supporting biotech. It’s very exciting.

And it’s definitely your reputation in the market. You know, the fact that you’re able to get referrals and you build trust with people definitely goes a long way towards building those new relationships.

During this time, we talked a little bit, at the beginning, about your team, and you’ve referenced them during the first part of our discussion. I know you had time with them before the pandemic hit. So you did have an opportunity to get to know them face to face a little bit. So how has that changed now that you are now in, operating with a team?
A very diverse team in a virtual way.

One of the things that really attracted me to GCI back in 2019, my first interview was with the president of the company, John Hellman, and he talked about how the leadership team leads and how they use a methodology called traction by Gino Wickum, I believe is his name, but John also talked about the company’s core values in that first meeting, which are to be grateful, to be fair, to be nimble and have a passion to deliver.

And those values truly resonated with me as a human being, particularly in the general construction business that the passion to deliver and to be fair. And I have seen time and time again with the repeat business that GCI has an unwavering commitment to execution. And I sit on calls every week with two of the vice presidents, the vice president I report to and another vice president.

We have two vice presidents in the organization, and I meet weekly with both of them. And it is so evident in our discussions at our sales meetings on how much value they put on execution, on it being all about the team. There’s an acronym I love, and it’s together each achieves more. And I feel as though this organization fully embraces that and I.

You know, during this time, my approach to my relationships really is about, how can I help you? How can I serve you? And is there anything we have been offering to help commercial real estate brokers with, like estimates, should they have an existing client that has a requirement? We are more than happy to be of service to you. So that’s really, I think, the leadership that I witnessed every day at GCI motivates me. It inspires me, and they really not only talk the talk, but they walk the talk.
It’s really nice to be part of an organization that’s values-driven. Isn’t it?

Yes.

It is a difference. Makes a huge, huge difference.

So before we wrap up, tell us, how are you thinking about what’s next now that we’ve been, I don’t know, like three months into this now, and businesses are reopening. People are going back to the office, kind of moving into a different phase here based on your experience in this, you know, shut down this virtual mode, how are you thinking about your work and your team in terms of what the next phase will look like?

Well, at the last town hall that we had, John Hellman, our president, talked about the absolute number one thing that GCI is driven by are the health and safety of its employees. And with respect to our offices, we are being more cautious, and all the offices, our office in the city, our office in South San Francisco, and in Mountain View, have all gone through a decontamination process, and the return to the office is going to look different for our organization because we do not have the luxury of redesigning all of our offices.

So it’s going to be a matter of staggering. If there’s a critical project face-to-face meeting that needs to happen, those will obviously be prioritized. But we also, I think collectively, everyone has embraced still being able to be productive with the use of technology.

And many of our clients are also taking a cautious approach. It’s going to be rolled out over time. And I, in my role, as much as I yearn to get back into the office and be side by side with my colleagues. It’s going to be done; I’m not sure what the date is.

Our office in Mountain View actually has grown significantly, and we were in the midst of a tenant improvement of our own when COVID hit. So we are wrapping up expanding our office in Mountain View. So, I would love nothing more than to be side-by-side with my colleagues, but right now, we’re doing every Thursday at 4:30, we have a happy hour where we are able to connect.

And in the meantime, there is so much when I think of what’s next, I think, all the people that have been laid off during this horrible pandemic and economic event. I am doing my best. There are some really talented people in my circle that have unfortunately been a casualty of COVID-19.

I am doing everything I can to try and help them with introducing them to other people that may have job openings. And just again, it’s really trying to figure out how we can be of service to others and help and be positive. I will say for myself, I have definitely tried to keep my routine as normal as possible.

And I started meditating when I had my ten weeks off in 2019, that has been essential for me. And it’s fully helped me exercise you, and I are both big on. I’m not a triathlete, but exercise has been a huge benefit to me; I’ve continued to work out very fortunate that I have a trainer that stands on my driveway, and I’m swinging a 35-pound kettlebell now. So that keeps my mind in a good place.

Right, we know the body-mind connection.

Absolutely.

Nancy, thank you so much for taking time today, sharing your experience and how you’ve been managing during the shutdown and particularly in a new job. We really appreciate you being a guest on our podcast and sharing your insights and advice.

And I’d love to thank our listeners. We hope this week’s episode of Leadership, Curveballs, Blind Spots and Black Holes has given you some practical solutions and insights to the challenges that you face as you navigate your own leadership journey through the new normal. Be sure to join us next week for another episode. And in the meantime, stay well.

Because of the pandemic, and the unique challenges it is presenting for business leaders, we’re conducting a special series of extended In the Fire Segments featuring executives who are managing through the biggest curveball many have seen in their lifetimes, COVID 19.

In this episode, we’re featuring Erin Baudo Felter, Vice President of Social Impact at Okta, leading Okta for Good, who shares with us how the pandemic has affected her role as a leader, her biggest challenges, and her thoughts on “what’s next.”

Podcast Transcript

Hi everyone, this is Bobbie LaPorte, your host of Executive Aid Stations, Leadership Curve Balls, Blind Spots, and Black Holes Podcast. Each week we help busy leaders navigate through complex and versatile times with practical solutions for real-life challenges.

Today’s episode is not in our usual format because of the pandemic and the unique challenges it’s presenting for business leaders. We’re conducting a series of extended, what we call, in the fire segments, featuring executives who are managing through the biggest curveball many have seen in their lifetimes, COVID-19.

And today we have a very special guest joining us, Erin Baudo Felter. who will share with us how the pandemic has affected her role as a leader, her biggest challenge, and her thoughts on what’s next.

So let me tell you a little bit about Erin. Erin is the vice-president of social impact and leads Okta for Good, Okta’s corporate social impact initiative.

She’s charged with leveraging Okta’s most important assets. it’s people, product, and company resources to accelerate the impact of mission-driven organizations around the world. Erin has worked at the intersection of business and social impact for over a decade and has held various corporate social impact roles at Zynga, Yahoo, and Warner Brothers, and is now also part of a group of leaders, transforming tech philanthropy, redefining the relationships between companies and communities through radical collaboration with partners in every sector.

So, Erin, I want to welcome you to this special COVID-19 edition of our podcast. I know that you felt the impact of the pandemic in your company at Okta and with the new community partners and also in your family. So I’m very pleased to see you again and to have you join us.

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

So let’s start with this question, what has been your biggest challenge during the pandemic? I’m sure there’s been many, but what’s been your biggest challenge.

Sure, there have been many for all of us and, you know, I’ll just add that not only with the pandemic, I think we’re now in the midst of another crisis, right?

Which is the crisis of racial injustice and protests and sort of unrest in our country around things that have been going on for a long time. So. It’s been hard and relentless what we’ve sort of all had to deal with and what we’ve gone through.

And I think for, for myself, going through these crises back to back in a role like mine, where we’re, as you said, myself, my team, we’re thinking about not just the company, not just our business and our long-term impact, not just our employees, but actually our communities as well, and be very connected to that.

I think what the hardest thing has been, is taking care of myself and my team while also trying to help everybody around us inside of our company respond and take action. So there’s many levels to that.

You know, I’m a big believer that none of us can help anybody if we, if we don’t take care of ourselves first.
And, for many of us, it’s been very challenging. For me personally, I’ve got a three and a six-year-old at home. Full-time job husband with a full-time job and all of that. And so that was very, very challenging just to sort of navigate, like, how do I even get my work done? How do I even find the hours in the day to get my work done?

Then you think about, you know, the team, right? So my team, small team, there’s four of us right now, but everybody’s feeling impacts of what’s going on in different ways. Some people are parents, some people are single and living at home, everybody’s dealing with that. And so how do you make space for that?

How do you take care of the team and then how do you do the next piece, which is what we’re really sort of existed our company at Okta to do, which is find ways to help the organization process what’s happening. Find ways for the organization to respond, and sort of hold all that for each and every one of our employees and for our executives. And turn that, that feeling and that anxiety and that desire for change into some actionable steps.

That’s right. There’s no question. I think you have a much bigger stage of players and stakeholders to deal with and probably the typical executive because you not only have your team, and then you also have from a personal perspective, also you have your family, but just because of the nature of your role, I mean, you really, in this environment, as you said, you have community partners outside that you’re supporting, that’s the real focus of your social impact initiative. You have the employees, so you’re trying to help them navigate through.

So, I know you have big shoulders, but I also know, that’s a lot to take on. So I’m hoping now that as things hopefully settle down a little bit coming out of this, that it won’t be such a stress for you.

Yeah.

But lots of different definitely appreciate that. There’s so many different types of audiences and stakeholders, internal and external that you’re trying to care for during this environment.

Yeah, you know, look, it’s a stress and anxiety for sure, but it’s also such a privilege and an opportunity too, you know? I may feel like I accomplished nothing on my to-do list at the end of a day, you know, in this time. But, there’s usually at least one thing, one conversation, one connection made, one moment where I can it’s okay, at least, what we did there, what I did there helps somebody through this in some small way.

So I’m sure there’s parts of every day that can be really satisfying for you.

So how has your role as a leader changed? We’ve alluded to that a little bit when you talk about all the different constituencies that you’re dealing with, both from your team and internally, but how do you think as a leader you’ve evolved during this time?

There’s a couple of things. First, back to sort of being a parent of young kids in this. It’s just like realizing and acknowledging my own limitations of, what is possible to achieve in a day, you know? And that was really hard in the first few weeks and months of this, of just not adjusting, not adjusting down my expectations for my own output in my own self.

It’s a little bit easier now, but the other one is, and, this is new, for me, but I think it’s really good. It’s just like saying, I don’t know. And being really honest about that. And in particular, I think with what’s going on with the protests and the racial injustice issues in this country and in our organization and how that’s manifesting in conversation is a lot of me saying, I just don’t know. I don’t have an answer here.

I had a meeting with my team a few days ago, sort of an emergency meeting to get on the phone and get their take on some things we were looking at around a response. And I could tell sort of halfway through that they were sort of responding to me as if they thought I had an answer already to my question and that I just wanted to them to give me some feedback or something.

And I finally said to them guys, I’m asking you, I pulled you on this call because I have no idea what to do here. And I need you to think with me, about all the pieces of this, and I need your ideas. I don’t have an answer and I’m not trying to influence you one way or the other. I really don’t know. We got to figure this out together and that’s new.

And I’ve seen that in lots of conversations with lots of different leaders at my company recently, I think there’s something really kind of wonderful about being able to say, I don’t know, and being able to throw up your hands and say, help, help me figure this out. Let’s communicate, let’s have a conversation about it.

And that, that is wonderful. And I think in these uncertain times, that’s a real sign of, vulnerability for leaders to basically say, you know what? I don’t have the answers. I don’t know. Let’s figure this out together because the days of leaders like standing up there at the top of the organization saying, here’s what we should do or here’s what we’re going to do, or here’s what I need you to do. That’s long gone because the world is changing so quickly. No one has the answers anymore.

That’s right. That’s right.

So sometimes it takes a situation like this to have people realize it’s okay to say, I don’t know.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Because that absolutely builds trust with your team. So, last question, given everything we’ve talked about, directionally, the future, the next phases we’re heading into, how are you in your organization thinking about what’s next?

It’s hard. It’s really hard to even imagine what’s next.

I’ve sort of shifted from a conversation with my team about, what’s next in terms of the content of our strategy, the content of our work, what we will do, what we will execute, what we deliver. From that into a conversation of more how so we may not know what the future will look like, and we may not know what our work will look like, but I do know that if nothing else, we need to maintain an incredible focus on empathy and agility as this thing evolves.

If we fail at one or both of those things, then we cannot do our jobs. Right? So on the empathy piece, you know, we are, we are sort of the big beating heart of our organization in so many ways because we’ve built that empathy muscle. We have all these different stakeholders. We deal with the community. We deal with employees. We deal with, Leadership and everybody in between.

And so we can actually model empathy for the company right now in a lot of really wonderful ways and help the company build that muscle. Right. And empathy is going to be how we get to the answer of what we want to do or what we should do when it comes time to make decisions on strategy and on the program and on investments in resourcing.

So I think that’s key and that’s always been important, but especially now, and then the other piece is, agility, which our CEO, Todd McKinnon has talked about a lot, through this crisis as being sort of a core, Guiding principles of how we need to show up, because, as hard as this is, and as, difficult as, what we’re seeing is for all of us, there are also tremendous opportunities for innovation here.

Yes.

Innovation for our business innovation for, in my case, like how we actually solve social problems and how we attack these issues, in different ways, especially because a lot of what we’ve been doing, isn’t working clearly. And so there’s opportunity for innovation. If we, again with our empathy muscle, listen to the needs of our stakeholders and listen to the needs out there and adjust, and then be agile to actually find those moments of innovation.

We come out of this better, stronger. By the way, business does great too, hopefully, and that’s good too, but there’s a bigger picture here. So anyway, that’s really how I’ve been framing it for myself, for my team. And, there’s still a lot of unknowns, but it really helps to program yourself.

Yes, yes, there are. But agility and empathy. I love that you’re in a very enviable position in your company to really foster that. And for it to have many benefits and outcomes.

So thank you. Thank you so much, for being a guest and sharing your insights and advice and to our listeners, we hope this week’s episode of Leadership, Curveballs, Blind Spots, and Black Holes provide you with some practical solutions and insights to the challenges you face as you navigate your own leadership journey through the new normal.

Be sure to join us next week for another episode. And in the meantime, stay safe and be well.

How did we arrive at this point where we are living in a world of unrelenting uncertainty, with no idea of what is coming next or how to plan for tomorrow?

Surely, we didn’t just wake up one morning and feel like the ground was shifting under us, that we were completely unsure of how to plan for the day and what, if anything, we could count on.

It does feel like that sometimes. There is no question that we are living in one of the most challenging times in recent memory. The pace of change and the impact that has across not just work, but all the domains of our lives, have been accelerating over the last decade. We now see that disrupting markets are not just the focus of high technology; it is happening across all industries and in organizations of all sizes and stages. Nearly every business faces increasing competition to stay relevant from start-ups to mature organizations who are transforming and reinventing themselves every day.

Stakeholders from every corner – investors, clients, employees, community members, and others – have a broader vision of the role of corporations in today’s environment and are heightening their demands. It seems like everyone wants more of you as a leader, and that pressure, combined with an environment of uncertainty, can feel overwhelming, even for the most resilient amongst us.

There has always been change, but the type of change we are experiencing now is completely different from what we have known in the past. It is broad, structural, and impacts virtually everything we do. The structural impact is unlike anything we’ve experienced in the past. It is ongoing…. a continuous ripple effect that continues to degrade the structure we have come to depend upon. It is like an earthquake that never ends: you think it is over but it’s not; the aftershocks just keep coming and coming.

This is the age of unrelenting uncertainty.

Don’t think you can look the other way and hope that this unrelenting uncertainty will go away and you can get back to the times where you knew what was coming next and how to plan for tomorrow; when your team came to you for answers and you showed them the way;  when you were clear on your path to continued success. That world is gone. Stop hoping that maybe, just maybe “things” will get back to normal….that you can just wait for things to settle down.

Or that you can create certainty because uncertainty brings more pressure to create certainty. Leaders who try to do more of the same of what worked in the past will be continually frustrated and stalled. Our brains don’t like uncertainty; they want to be in a “toward” state where there is at least some sense of direction, of promise, if not certainty.

Your role now is to provide reassurance that uncertainty affects everyone equally, that as a leader, you are on the same, unstable footing as the people on your team. You can provide general direction and guidance, you can help your team connect to their long-term goals, you can instill confidence and promise, but you can’t provide answers with any certainty.

This is the new standard of competence and confidence by which all leaders will be measured from this point forward.

—–

Bobbie LaPorte draws on the sciences of positive psychology, neuroscience, and behavioral fitness to help challenged executives navigate today’s uncharted territory to achieve their goals. Get in touch with Bobbie to learn how her approach can transform your people, your processes, and your entire organization—and help you get ready for anything!

The book is now available on Amazon.

IN THIS EPISODE we’re featuring a special In the Fire Segment with Mike Hamilton, formerly IT exec at MuleSoft and Salesforce, now Vice President of IT at Databricks. In an earlier episode of LCBB, Mike shared how he successfully navigated the Salesforce acquisition of MuleSoft as well as multiple role changes while he was at Salesforce. Mike returns today to give us an update on what he’s learned since his last guest appearance on LCBB and the latest job and organizational changes he’s navigating through.

We know from our survey of tech executives that reorgs continue to be the biggest curveball today’s facing execs. Mike is one of the most resilient, transition-hearty and self-aware executives we know. His advice will certainly have value for everyone. Be sure to also listen to Mike’s past episode on LCBB as well.

Podcast Transcript

Hi everyone, this is Bobbie LaPorte, your host of Executive Aid Stations, Leadership, Curveballs, Blind Spots, and Black Holes. Each week we help busy leaders navigate through complex and uncertain times with practical solutions for real life. In this week’s episode, we’re featuring a special in the fire segment with Mike Hamilton was formerly an IT Executive MuleSoft and Salesforce, and now vice-president of IT at Databricks.

In an earlier episode of LCB, Mike showed how he successfully navigated the Salesforce acquisition of MuleSoft as well as multiple role changes while he was at Salesforce. Mike returns today to give us an update on what he’s learned since his last guest appearance on our show. And the latest job and organizational changes he’s navigating through in his new role at Databricks.

At Executive Aid Station, we recently conducted a brief survey of tech execs and learned that reorgs and job changes are the biggest curveballs facing today’s leaders. Uncertainty is definitely a condition of employment and our current business environment.

It can put you on the defense avoiding risk instead of embracing opportunity. Mike Hamilton knows this all too well. And it’s now putting what he has learned to work in this new role at Databricks.

Mike, welcome back to in the fire. It seems like you’re in the fire quite often. We’d love to hear about your transition to Databricks and, kind of how you charted your course in the very beginning and some of the lesson.

Awesome. Happy to share. So, yes, I started the job as vice president of it over at Databricks recently. And, as with anything changed, you know, being the new norm in life, I think. It’s a, it’s a case where they hadn’t had someone at this level before, but they had had a practice there before they had actually had basic IT team, as well as the business applications team and coming in sort of gaining the landscape.

Generally speaking, my strategy has to be, you know, what’s working and what’s not, and focusing a little bit on where can we get some wins and where can we showcase the team’s talents while also looking for assessing the technical debt that we may have enhanced. We may still have going on as well as, plotting the course for where we can make an impact quickly and make a difference in the way the business runs.

And I think the most important thing to call out those kind of the psychology behind change in general. So with a new leader coming in, for example, that’s a change, it’s a change for me because I’m new and I’m coming into this company and then there’s a change for the team as well. And in my case, in this new role, there were actually two teams being brought underneath me that hadn’t worked together much before.

And so having a little bit empathy and understanding for those folks in terms of like, Hey, so where does everybody see their value coming from? And, how do we knit these two teams together so that they’re able to work together? And so that was, that’s been a really interesting transition for me. , but it’s really good too, to get in there and understand how my team perceives the change and what they’re looking to get out of it. And then lay out very clearly where I see us going.

I think people want to see the leader set a direction early on. In terms of what they can expect from them, how could they expect to see things change, even when you see it coming, it’s always a little bit shocking.

But I think the worst kind of change people can go through is when they don’t see a change coming and managing through changes that we know are going to happen is really setting expectations, making yourself available for feedback, making yourself available, to just talk through and actually seeking people out, especially key players or people who are visibly affected by something and really digging in and understanding what they think about it and how they see it.

As you know, Bobbie, a lot of my philosophy of leadership revolves around my success being derived from the success of my team and the individuals on that team. And that’s why to me, the empathy side of this is such an important facet of it because I really need to make sure that the team is understanding exactly that I care, first of all. But then also that whatever direction I am planning on setting that there’s a little bit of context for them upfront, as well as some inclusion of what they see as valuable.

So that as we’re sending this direction together, it definitely looks like something where I’m taking their input or I’m taking what I’m seeing the landscape and then bringing them along on that journey to set that kind of tone for the team going forward.

So it’s been a really interesting, journey so far. But I think it’s going really, really well. And I’m excited about it.

Well, one of the things we’ve talked about before is that, there is no you say, you know, uncertainty is a condition of employment, right. And there is no certainty.

So you can’t really give that to your team, but what you can give them is some promise of what, you know, what might like what direction you’re heading in, as you said, and talk about what you’ll share with them. So, I’m guessing that that was well received. I’m wondering, kind of, what kind of response are you seeing from them? From you. And from that approach that you just described.

In general, people are, are really positive about it. I think the thing that’s making it easier for my team is the fact that the other value that I sort of like to espouse is enthusiasm and passion for my job.

When I come into the office every day, I’m really upbeat. I’m really excited. I say hi to everybody on my team right now, because they came from two different parts of the company. And they’re merging into one and they sit in different parts of the building, for the time being, we’re growing so fast that we’re out of real estate.

And so I make sure to make the rounds and while I’m making the rounds also say hi to other departments that happened to be in the area like people operations, but I always do so with a level of enthusiasm.

And it’s like, Hey, you know, I’m psyched to be here. I’m really excited to be a part of this team. Let’s go. and I think setting that tone, really helps as well as then more on the one-on-one level and then team level, being able to set expectations. And that seems sort of sensation of like where we’re going as clear.

I had a say in where we were going, things that were important to me are important to Mike, and things that maybe are important to me that Mike says we can’t do yet, that I have a reason why. , and it is really about bringing the team along with me. Again, if my success comes from my individual contributors, then I have a responsibility to know what they think.

And with layers of management and everything else, just working the way it is, it takes some extra effort, especially initially to make those connections with people at every level and try to understand what they see and how what their view of the world is. And then really try to knit that into and stitch it into where I’m taking the group so that everybody feels like they’ve been a part of the journey.

But it does take some, some research, you know, and it takes caring about the people on my team. But, without that extra concern and that enthusiasm, I think people don’t necessarily think it’s authentic. And I think authenticity is really what people want more than anything.

Right. Totally agree that it does take time, but I think it’s a very worthwhile investment for you to be getting to know people and kind of bringing them into the conversation and connecting with them early on, which I know is challenging with being in a new, a new, new role and a new company and trying to navigate the whole landscape of the executive team and all the other people that are your internal stakeholders.

Well, that’s very, very helpful. Thank you so much for coming back to visit with us and giving us a quick update on where you’re headed, and I wish you all the best at Databricks and, in any future moves you make. We’ll definitely want to know about those as well.

And thanks to our listeners. We hope this week’s episode of Leadership Curve Balls, Blind Spots, and Black Holes provided you with some practical solutions and insights to the challenges you face. As you navigate your own leadership journey

Be sure to visit our website www.bobbielaporte.com to hear Mike’s original, episode. And don’t forget to join us next week for another episode of Leadership, Curveballs Blind Spots and Black Holes.

In this Episode:

00:50 – Curveball of the Week: What to do when your boss gets fired or resigns unexpectedly

03:35 – Confidence Killer of the Week: How to respond when you are asked to reapply for your current job

06:50 – In the Fire special guest, Commercial Executive, Anil Jhanji, shares how he managed the transition of five CEOs in ten years.

Transcript of: “Confidence Killers and High CEO Turnover”

Hi everyone, this is Bobbie LaPorte, your host of Leadership, Curveballs Blind Spots in Black Holes. Each week we help busy leaders navigate through complex and versatile times. with practical solutions for real-life challenges. This week’s episode is about unexpectedly having a new boss and being asked to reapply for the job that you’re in and in our, “In the Fire” segment with our special guest steel industry, commercial executive, Anil Jhanji shares how he handled the transition working for five CEOs in less than a decade.

Let’s get started with this week’s curveball. It’s all about having a new boss unexpectedly. So your boss was fired or resigned without any notice. Let’s face it, with the pace of change and uncertainty this is becoming more of a common occurrence, but it’s still unsettling. And uncertainty is the new norm. And the playbooks we relied on in the past are no longer useful.

So in this particular situation where it was unexpected and expectations are unclear and uncertain. So you will need to keep your team focused and on track, especially if there’s a void until a new boss comes in, you will need to be the person that provides emotional steadiness for your team, as you are the point of continuity and reassurance for them.

And while uncertainty can put you on the defense, this is definitely the time to take the offense and put you and your team in the best possible position going forward.

Here are three suggestions I have for you in this situation:

First, get to know your new boss.

Once that person is named their immediate goals and management style, what’s important to them. How do they want to communicate? How do they lead? That way you can tailor your approach to who they are and what they need.

Secondly, offer to help them to get off to a positive start.

If they’re new to the organization, let them know that they can count on you to help identify the key people they need to know.

And these might not always be the obvious ones on the organization chart, and also the unwritten cultural norms of the company. You could be a strong guide and navigator for a new boss coming into the organization and help them get off to a fast start.

Third

And the third thing would be to consider how to apply and deploy the strengths of you and your team to your new bosses’ priorities, whether you like it or not, the game has changed.

The sooner you aligned, what you and your team can contribute to help your new boss be successful. The more you’ll be seen as a player and a critical piece of this new puzzle. And during this time of transition, you might find ways to accelerate progress on key initiatives by leveraging your team’s strengths and past successes.

One thing is certain, this will not be the last time you experienced the new boss situation. So take the offense and make it a true learning opportunity for you and your team.

Next up is our confidence killer

And so we’re back with this week’s confidence killer, which is you’ve been asked to reapply for your current job. I’m starting to see this emerging practice more and more as companies, reorg, reshuffle, talent, and reboot their organization to match the changing needs of the business within leadership talent.

No doubt, this can be very unsettling to even the most confident and competent leaders, particularly if you’ve been performing well and contributing and getting good feedback. One way to look at this is as an opportunity to honestly, and thoughtfully inventory what you really do well and what you enjoy doing so that you can find the right fit in the organization.

So if this happens to you, here are some steps I would suggest that you take, if you’ve been asked to reapply for your current job.

Number one:

Look critically at all the jobs that are posted for application. And this is often the case where a department will post all the jobs at a certain level and open them up to everyone.

So look at those to see what else out there might appeal to you, but don’t overextend and oversubscribed yourself by applying to too many. This is an indication that you’re not sure of your value proposition and that maybe you feel desperate.

Number two:

Really take the time to assess your strengths and talents.

Look at your previous performance feedback, take some online assessments, if they’re available, even ask a trusted colleague or two for their assessment of your strengths, with tangible examples.

Number three:

Consider what kind of work you really like to do and the environment in which you thrive. So, do you like managing a big team? Would you rather experience the intimacy of a smaller team? Are you ready to be an individual contributor? All those environments, organizational settings are important to consider.

Number four:

Take the longer-term view. So how can you use this turn of events to revisit your current role and how it fits into your overall career plan?

So maybe a job in another area, will give you a different, fresh perspective and create a platform for what’s next.

Number five:

Consider how you can make this turn of events an opportunity to increase your visibility in the company, to amplify your contribution, and to show people what you’re really good at.

And, how can you take advantage of this change as an opportunity to stand out from your peers? This is a very unsettling situation, and most of them are probably feeling wounded and worried and wondering what’s next, and will soon find themselves on the sidelines, wondering what happened.

You can’t control what’s already happened, but you can control your attitude and approach to this potential confidence killer.

That’s it for our confidence killer of the week. And the fire is up next and starts in a few seconds. Featuring steel industry, commercial executive Anil Jhanji who successfully transitioned reporting to five different CEOs in less than 10 years.

Interview with Anil Jhanji

We’re back again with, in the fire. And today we’re joined by our special guests and Anil Jhanji, who is director of markets, customer, and shared services for Tata steel Europe, which includes markets in the Americas, Europe, and Asia, and Anil has been with Tata steel for 28 years. And in addition to his current directorship, he also holds a number of other executive roles in the organization.

I am very excited to have Anil join us for this week in the fire segment to share how he managed the challenge of working for five different CEOs in the last decade. ,

Anil, welcome. That sounds like quite a challenge. Please tell us about it.

Thank you, Bobbie. I’m really excited to be on the recording and thank you for the opportunity as well.

If you look at the last 10 years in my view, be happy. Amazingly gifted because every CEO was coming joined our organization has come with unique talents and unique skillset, which is a stem to form a point of view on what they would want to achieve in the organization. And the course they would like to take and the kind of core team required to do so.

Similarly, all of us as individuals and leaders of our own identity and the skill set we have developed are blessed. And if there’s a perfect match in demand and supply, then one enjoys the adrenaline leading the objectives. And at the maximum, not as strong as I’ve seen, men should just accept developments gracefully and continue to deliver in areas where our strengths can valuate without compromising on the beliefs.

I found, one thing I’ve found that as a leader, one is more effective by not going against one’s grain every so often once in a while to do so. To test if our preferences have changed in life is always good. You never know unless you give it a try.

Yes, absolutely. I mean, you never know, and I’m sure that working with that many different CEO styles over that period of time presented its own challenges to share a little bit about, because you said they all have very different styles.

What did you learn about your own leadership style when you were working with these very, these executives who had very different styles?

Yeah. So if I reflect back on the last 10 years, we have had some amazing leaders. The first gentleman I worked with, he had amazing amount of charisma and he would tell them all the stakeholders alike and, subsequently, the next gentleman who came in he was, he was quite a visionary in terms of being able to direct the organizations towards keeping the customers in the center of all decision-making and between the operating model and a lot of learning involved there as well and thereafter, there was a strong disciplinarian who walked into the organization, very dynamic and then centralized the whole organization towards one common goal.

So off and on you pick up all these other, attributes from each of these leaders and, love to see you at a very forward-focused. And he actually spent a lot of time turning the organization towards not be spending too much time on post-mortem but also spending the time on how to look forward and plan for the future.

And the current CEO over just stepped in and with whom I’ve had the pleasure to work with for the last five, six years is higher and empathy. Belief in empowering leaders were trustworthy and selects the design team in a very meticulous manner. So, finally, it’s amazing to have worked with all of them.

Obviously, it’s quite scary. Imagine if. one single individual would have all these talents, which is not obviously possible, but in a nutshell, I think I’ve gained a lot in spite of the challenges of having to shift gear and accommodate and find ways of adjusting of different ways of working.

Right. I like the way that you described it as a gift of having so many different CEO. , of course, it is disruptive and it is challenging for everyone. But I think the opportunity as you’ve laid it out is that you get to see so many different styles and the trade-offs between them and what’s effective and what isn’t. And you’re able to adapt from that and add to your own style.

Maybe there’s something that you would like to be doing more of. And so you see that in a CEO and you watch them and you see how they role model that. And then you’re able to adapt it and try it and incorporate it into your own styles. I think that’s a really healthy way to look at those kinds of executive changes is what can I take from this experience?

What can I learn from it? Because as you said, I mean, it’s the major change. Every new CEO brings their own style and their own philosophy to the organization.

And so my last question would be, so with all these changes, share with us a little bit about how you guided your team through these.

Yeah. That can be quite a difficult task, because sometimes if you have an observant style, you can understand what is happening around you in the organization, and why different behaviors of why different leaders sort of conduct themselves in a different manner and lead the organization in a different manner.

But if you’re not observant and if you just follow, if you’re following what the advice is coming your way, it can be quite challenging to make course corrections. Fortunately, for us. , we were going through different business cycles whenever the new CEO came in and we could benefit from the talent of the gifts with the CEO brought with themselves.

But my message to my team has been very uniform, continue to work on one individual strengths and all of us will continue to have a role to play an important role to play. And if there are course corrections led by the CEO, which don’t allow opportunity for us as a leader, for an individual as a leader to contribute directly, use the valuable time to upscale yourself with some, with some talent or something you’ve always wanted to do, learn a language or a musical instrument or develop some new skillset relish the time to be able to hibernate for a while before the next cycle of opportunities and challenges flow in.

One of the other options, but we have also tried, and which has worked sometimes is to silently find ways of delivering in your own style and prove that a different approach is also an option to the one advocated by the CEO. It’s a big, it’s a high-risk strategy, but it’s worth giving it a try if you’re really strong in your conviction that it has worked in the past.

So, Yeah, that does in nutshell, that is what my advice to my team has been. And that is what I keep myself motivated as well, when all these changes happen.

Right. Excellent advice. And it’s obviously been successful for you because you’ve continued to advance in the organization and I’m sure you’ll continue to enjoy success at Tata steel.

So thank you very much, Anil, for your valuable insights and advice. And thanks to our listeners, we hope that this week’s episode of Leadership, Curveballs, Blind Spots and Black Holes provided with some practical solutions and insights to the challenges you face as you. Your own leadership journey.

So join us next week for another episode of Leadership, Curveballs, Blind Spots and Black Holes.